I second the review completely. This all punctuat…
Whitney - Mar 1, 2008
I second the review completely. This all punctuated by a preacher who spent tens of thouseands of dollars to change the carpeting throughout the massive facility because he thought it’s mauve overcast was too feminine, eradicated the library completely to put in a starbucks, and banned the sunday school class communal coffee machines and bringing of donuts bc it would detract from the profits reaped by the coffee shop. Can we say Jesus angrily turning over tables and whipping the baristas for defiling his house? I get more angry every time I enter that building. We will not be returning, EVER probably.
This is a comment coming from a friend of the preacher and of the director. Southeast has always had one thing in mind, Jesus and His ministry. People in today’s society will automatically tune out anything that is not up to the quality standards of the world. Broadway spends loads of money to make it what it is, and Southeast spends load of money to make their production as good as Broadway but with the story of Jesus implemented inside. Shane (the director) took on the role of Jesus because he is also playing Jesus in the Easter Experience (City on a Hill Production’s newest release) and Dave (Southeast’s preacher) did not spend the money to re-do the inside of the church, the leadership of the church made a lot of those decisions. The coffee shop was added because people today flock to coffee shops..so why not put one in a church so people will flock to church? Please do not criticize my church and te way we do things…because with 18,000 members we must be doing something right. And that something is telling Jesus’ story at any and all expense…
Hi. Well first, my blog, my rules… HarryC - Mar 3, 2008
@Brandon:
Hi. Well first, my blog, my rules. If my wife wants to comment, she may.
Do I like Southeast, particularly? Nah. Do I like Dave Stone particularly? Nope. Kinda creeps me out, actually.
Is any of that scriptural? No. Just personal preference. People may have preferences, and they may have criticisms, friend.
To wit, my wife and I didn’t like the production, Shane’s performance, or the staging.
Anyway, yes, you have a big church. Feel better? Good.
Forgive my husband’s brusque response… he does have a point however….and understand, I went there for 22 years, grew up there and loved it until the last 2 years….and I’ve been in the pageant so I know the work and time involved. In the ongoing conversation that is the pageant and SECC itself, while many have argued a point that SECC is all about Jesus, and always has been, no one has bothered to discuss Stone’s decisions in regard to the appearance and personality of the church. Mostly because they can’t really be defended biblically. Of course, that’s my opinion. I wouldn’t mind hearing the scriptural side of putting a for=profit coffee shop in in place of the library…..a coffee shop where I personally saw a hungry man ask for a donut and was told when he got a free donut at starbucks to come back and the barista would talk to him then. Btw, I got a free grande frappicino and lemon cake at starbucks recently when I mentioned I’d just had my tonsils out. The only reason I heard for the coffee shop was that people flock to them and that’s what the younger generation wants so that’s what the church is giving them. well the younger generation also wants a free pass on promiscuity and marxist ideals. Is SECC gonna give them that too?
Forgive the extremism as there really is no rancor there. I’m simply aghast at the church that I used to love that really did preach Christ when Bob was there suddenly losing sight of their call to financial stewardship to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a BUILDING to appease the minister’s personal proclivities. That is unbiblical. And imagine the number of people that could’ve been fed, housed, number of villages that could finally have clean water, or medicine or…..the list of global need never ends. And Stone, with board approval I understand, spends tens of thousands or mil on new carpet and a new interior facelift because it’s too feminine. Even the most avid SECC fan has to admit there’s something wrong with that.
Understand please I am not criticizing your church, though I have every right to do so. I am criticizing MY church. MY church that I love. MY church that I grew up in, became an adult in, lived my life in. MY church that I still defend when someone calls it “Six Flags Over Jesus.” MY church that still houses some extended family friends. But most of my friends, in all age categories, have left due to biblical concerns with Stone’s agenda and the direction that he’s taken SECC.
Remember, just because the church is large isn’t verification that Christ is the head of SECC. It may simply mean there’s another Joel Osteen in place, or at least similar ideals.
I can accept your thoughts on our church. And I can understand your concern on some decisions not being biblical. But as Christ’s church we are seeking the lost (and making church interesting to them) edifying the saved (by offering small groups and classes held in on campus living rooms and coffe shop) THese expenses are only tools. And tools shouldn’t make you leave a church. If straight up biblical preaching and world wide ministry is your thing then awesome…go to the service and make sure your money is used for missions. But please don’t make your “belonging” to a church about the tools of the church. Because THAT is unbiblical. It was Southeast’s quality that hooked me on church and it was Southeast’s teaching and preching that hooked me on Jesus. It was Southeast’s elementary ministry that hooked me on ministry, and it was Dave Stone and Kyle Idleman along with countless others that have supported me through Bible College.
I just don’t see a problem with it all to be honest.
Apparently, we didn’t see the same production, my friend!
Not one memorable song?!? Did you not hear “I’m Asking Now” – which captures the anguish of Mary during the three days awaiting the resurrection?!? Were you listening when the woman at the well sang “Living Waters”? Did you miss the “Blood of the Lamb” song during the Last Supper? Apparently, since you did not find the songs memorable! I personally loved the music and bought the CD.
Violent? Yes. If the Pageant, like the “Passion”, makes one uncomfortable in its depiction of the crucifiction, GOOD! We need to be reminded that Jesus’ journey to the cross was no trip to the day spa! Which is what the Lenten season is all about, I always thought.
Of course, opinions are like belly buttons – everybody’s got one! (Although the usual anatomical reference is usually decidedly posterior and south!) Yours and Whitney’s, however, seem to be driven more by your apparent animosity towards the Church, it’s choice of decor and its leadership, rather than the production itself - which is, of course, your prerogative.
I am not a member of the Southeast Christian Church, and travelled a fair distance to see the Easter Pageant in Louisville. I was skeptical going in, but edified coming out. I’ve heard it said that all the money they put into the production would be well spent if they could turn even one person to Jesus. Mission accomplished, SECC! I WILL be going back – several times probably – in the years to come, and I’ll be bringing others who need a reminder of what Jesus endured so that our sins may be forgiven.
This comment probably won’t make it to your Blog, because – as you say – your Blog, your rules. But I hope you will have the integrity to post an alternative view. I believe the hundreds of volunteers who made the production possible deserve better.
I posted Brandon’s ad hominem; I… HarryC - Mar 5, 2008
@GC
I posted Brandon’s ad hominem; I’ll certainly post your well-stated reply. If this turns into a flame-fest I’ll put a stop to it, but opposing views are (usually) welcome.
* * *
To clarify: I have no axe to grind against SECC. I don’t like the place, but I don’t *dislike* the place, either. It is what it is–a mega-church that’s 1 hour west of me. The two comments I regret from the review were about my sarcastic remark about the director and my comment about “the money had to go somewhere.” Those were cheap, immature shots.
Aside from that, it was an opinion of likes and dislikes. Lest we forget, I did like things about the play. If nothing else, it was an adventurous step in a different direction.
Lastly, much is made about how I’ve done a disservice to Christendom through this review, that the volunteers and performers deserve better. I saw a play and wrote what I thought of it. It was my honest opinion. You just did the same. Let’s leave it at that.
Wow, this thread is growing quickly! Before I got a chance to post a comment, Harold has posted again. I put up a somewhat related post on my blog. It doesn’t say much, and some of what it does say was just said by Harold, but I just thought I would share something that made me chuckle a bit.
FYI…commenting is closed on this. I’ll post no more submissions about it. After the last few comments I’ve gotten for moderation, trust me–that’s good for everyone. I’m not going to perpetuate deep-seated antagonisms and provide a forum for it.
I welcome others to post their own reviews on other sites, debate the spiritual merits of SECC, and/or state that I’m fat, smelly, and stupid. (I am two of those things)
Just do it somewhere else. I’ve had enough Holy War for one (Passion) week.
God bless and keep you all, even my brothers and sisters in Christ whom I vexed so mightily.
I am a member of SECC. Let me get the facts straight. The carpet was changed because the carpet was worn out, and they changed the color scheme to suit the building and personality of the membership. That’s it.
The library was moved to a larger more accessible space on the second floor, when the NOT FOR PROFIT coffee shop was put in place. The money made in the coffee shop, goes into the church’s general fund which one third of goes into outreach activities in the city, country and across the globe to minister and reach those who are poor, homeless and hungry. The preaching is straight up from the Bible and I will defend any word preached from that pulpit till the day I die because its the Word of God. It might not be what people want to hear, but its the truth and sometimes the truth is uncomfortable.
@mimzy
So, here we are nearly 3 years later. I posted your comment as it appears to correct factual errors in the comment stream.
> Carpet was worn out.
I can believe it; lots of feet in there every weekend. That’s great!
> Library was moved to better location
Makes sense. This link indicates there is indeed a Media Center off the second floor atrium of the Blankenbaker campus
http://www.southeastchristian.org/Default.aspx?page=3471
> NONPROFIT coffee shop.
Couldn’t find substantiation for this in 10 minutes of googling around. I’ll take your word for it.
Sadly, in googling ‘southeast christian church coffee shop nonprofit’, this thread is the top hit.
Best wishes for a Blessed 2011.
I know it’s been a while since this posted, and I think some of the things are true. But not all of this.
I didn’t like the director as Jesus either, not even this year. They brought it back to the old one, but i still didn’t like the Jesus that Shane played. I didn’t like how the old one was always videos, it took away from the point. It was too much going on, it was too, well, artsy fartsy. I liked it better as the old one. And this year it was. I love the Easter Pageant, but sometimes people have to experiment, and they did, they tried the new way, they didn’t like it, lost alot of money, brought it back to the old Easter Pageant for one year, and ended it completely.
They ended it because they spent to much money on the new production and lost a lot, but tell me this, how can my church spend millions of dollars making new buildings, for crying out loud we have a flipping GYM!!! That’s unneccessary!! How come they can’t spend the money on something better, something that God actually appreciates, more then a bunch of people sweating like crazy on high tech equipment. Why couldn’t they spend all that money on keeping the Easter Pageant going? In a few years it would be back to the high expectations everyone expected it to be and they would be makeing money again.
But not only that, when did this performance become about makeing money? It used to be completely about telling the story of Jesus, leading others to the light.
Maybe it’s just me, maybe I don’t get it all the way, but I think the Easter PAGEANT should continue!
@Kmurphy,
Believe it or not, my wife and I attended the last performance ever this year, and we enjoyed it immensely.
I really liked the re-imagined play, including Jesus’ performance (didn’t recognize the same guy/director was Jesus, and I’d like to think that wouldn’t have colored my opinion). I laughed and cried and was deeply moved, as I always am when someone presents the story of my Savior’s death for me and the rest of this lost world.
What I read into your response is frustration at SECC’s stewardship practices. I’d encourage you to keep yourself informed and connected to your church leadership and prayerfully consider how you might help the situation. Oftentimes, we say to ourselves, “Somebody should do something!” Well, be that *somebody*.
God bless and keep you.